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	<title>Comments for Church of the Cross</title>
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	<description>He Himself bore our sins in His body...</description>
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		<title>Comment on Updated &#8211; Who is Responsible for a Church&#8217;s Faithfulness? by Joel</title>
		<link>http://www.churchofthecrossmahomet.org/2010/08/who-is-responsible-for-a-churchs-faithfulness/comment-page-1/#comment-469</link>
		<dc:creator>Joel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Aug 2010 21:36:52 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I hope this comment gets posted, my internet has been acting up all day!

I read your email through my phone, but haven&#039;t been able to respond on my computer due to internet troubles. Let me say a few things:

First, thank you very much for your gracious approach to what I wrote. I suspect that we agree more on the principle of this issue and that most of our disagreement is over what is meant by &quot;autonomous church.&quot; 

I attended an SBC seminary for my undergraduate degree and have been raised SBC. In fact, my hope is to head to a different SBC seminary in the Spring. With that said, I was taught by two different professors that an autonomous church is one that is free of elders; in fact, these two professors mocked the elder system. 

Now, I don&#039;t say that to say, &quot;My SBC seminary disagrees with you, therefore...&quot; Instead, I bring it up to point out that it&#039;s possible that I have been mislead on what the autonomous church means. Both of these professors see the &quot;elder movement&quot; (as they labeled it) as a Reformed movement within the SBC, so this could explain their disdain for having elders since this same school I went to is becoming quite infamous for its anti-Reformed teaching (if you keep up with SBC seminaries, I&#039;m quite sure you&#039;re able to guess which one I attended). 

If you take an autonomous church to mean one that simply has no hierarchy that it answers to, but where the pastor is still held accountable, then I would agree with such a model. However, I still find a model similar to what the Eastern Orthodox use to be better than most evangelical models, even with elders. 

However, such a model (the Orthodox) is not tenable for many Evangelicals for various reasons. With that in mind, I think an elder-lead church is optimal. The church I currently attend is elder run and that has worked quite well. 

I think you saw through what I was writing and exposed my main concern; pastors who have no accountability. I have seen some churches where the elders are nothing more than &quot;yes men&quot; or where the pastor is still supreme; the elders act merely as a committee. This is the type of church I was speaking out against and, as I have been led to believe by professors at an SBC seminary, that is what is meant by an autonomous church. 

Regardless, I think we would still disagree somewhat, but it wouldn&#039;t be a major disagreement or something to fight about, but more a matter of opinion. I still think having a hierarchy of sorts is preferable to a church standing on her own even with elders. While such a church isn&#039;t doomed to failure, I do think that it faces more challenges than a church following a proper hierarchal form. But even so, an elder led church is not doomed to failure, but I would advocate that a church run on the Pastor/CEO model will always fail unless God intervenes. 

Good thoughts and I took no disrespect to you posting this on your site. I think I had the comments turned off, but regardless if you were able to use my post to help your own congregation grow, then it works out for the better. 

I hope all remains well and it&#039;s nice to find someone who can disagree in a respectable manner. That has been hard to come by as of late. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hope this comment gets posted, my internet has been acting up all day!</p>
<p>I read your email through my phone, but haven&#8217;t been able to respond on my computer due to internet troubles. Let me say a few things:</p>
<p>First, thank you very much for your gracious approach to what I wrote. I suspect that we agree more on the principle of this issue and that most of our disagreement is over what is meant by &#8220;autonomous church.&#8221; </p>
<p>I attended an SBC seminary for my undergraduate degree and have been raised SBC. In fact, my hope is to head to a different SBC seminary in the Spring. With that said, I was taught by two different professors that an autonomous church is one that is free of elders; in fact, these two professors mocked the elder system. </p>
<p>Now, I don&#8217;t say that to say, &#8220;My SBC seminary disagrees with you, therefore&#8230;&#8221; Instead, I bring it up to point out that it&#8217;s possible that I have been mislead on what the autonomous church means. Both of these professors see the &#8220;elder movement&#8221; (as they labeled it) as a Reformed movement within the SBC, so this could explain their disdain for having elders since this same school I went to is becoming quite infamous for its anti-Reformed teaching (if you keep up with SBC seminaries, I&#8217;m quite sure you&#8217;re able to guess which one I attended). </p>
<p>If you take an autonomous church to mean one that simply has no hierarchy that it answers to, but where the pastor is still held accountable, then I would agree with such a model. However, I still find a model similar to what the Eastern Orthodox use to be better than most evangelical models, even with elders. </p>
<p>However, such a model (the Orthodox) is not tenable for many Evangelicals for various reasons. With that in mind, I think an elder-lead church is optimal. The church I currently attend is elder run and that has worked quite well. </p>
<p>I think you saw through what I was writing and exposed my main concern; pastors who have no accountability. I have seen some churches where the elders are nothing more than &#8220;yes men&#8221; or where the pastor is still supreme; the elders act merely as a committee. This is the type of church I was speaking out against and, as I have been led to believe by professors at an SBC seminary, that is what is meant by an autonomous church. </p>
<p>Regardless, I think we would still disagree somewhat, but it wouldn&#8217;t be a major disagreement or something to fight about, but more a matter of opinion. I still think having a hierarchy of sorts is preferable to a church standing on her own even with elders. While such a church isn&#8217;t doomed to failure, I do think that it faces more challenges than a church following a proper hierarchal form. But even so, an elder led church is not doomed to failure, but I would advocate that a church run on the Pastor/CEO model will always fail unless God intervenes. </p>
<p>Good thoughts and I took no disrespect to you posting this on your site. I think I had the comments turned off, but regardless if you were able to use my post to help your own congregation grow, then it works out for the better. </p>
<p>I hope all remains well and it&#8217;s nice to find someone who can disagree in a respectable manner. That has been hard to come by as of late. <img src='http://www.churchofthecrossmahomet.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>Comment on Updated &#8211; Who is Responsible for a Church&#8217;s Faithfulness? by &#187; Know the Faith, Defend the Faith Church of the Cross</title>
		<link>http://www.churchofthecrossmahomet.org/2010/08/who-is-responsible-for-a-churchs-faithfulness/comment-page-1/#comment-468</link>
		<dc:creator>&#187; Know the Faith, Defend the Faith Church of the Cross</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Aug 2010 18:04:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.churchofthecrossmahomet.org/?p=362#comment-468</guid>
		<description>[...] responding to the article on the autonomy of local churches at The Christian Watershed, I am happy to commend [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] responding to the article on the autonomy of local churches at The Christian Watershed, I am happy to commend [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Devil Preaches the Gospel by Rebekah</title>
		<link>http://www.churchofthecrossmahomet.org/2010/08/the-devil-preaches-the-gospel/comment-page-1/#comment-464</link>
		<dc:creator>Rebekah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Aug 2010 19:52:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.churchofthecrossmahomet.org/?p=306#comment-464</guid>
		<description>One of my favorite songs by Shane and Shane...Praise the Lord, we know the refrain!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One of my favorite songs by Shane and Shane&#8230;Praise the Lord, we know the refrain!</p>
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